FQXi Administrator Anthony Aguirre wrote on Aug. 4, 2008 @ 17:52 GMT
I believe that
Henri Bergson, one of my favorite philosophers, once said that "Time is what prevents everything from happening at once." I've also heard it remarked that this clearly is not working anymore.
This isn't just a (true) comment on my own schedule, but also to point out that as well as announcing the
results of the second round of large FQXi grants, we're also simultaneously very excited to launch FQXi's
first essay contest, on "The Nature of Time."
I'm very much looking forward to hearing what some really careful thinkers really think about time (when encouraged by the possibility of some cash and fame) as well as to the opportunity to take part in what I hope will be a really fun and interesting discussion of a foundational question that is at once both intimately familiar and deeply mysterious. Have at it!
Finally, as another piece of current news, we're happy to welcome Zeeya Merali (from whom you've already seen blog entries) as both a new sometimes blogger and editor-in-chief of the FQXi community site.
post approved
Dale Trynor wrote on Aug. 16, 2008 @ 09:16 GMT
This looks like just the sort of thing I have been waiting for and I hope I can qualify. You see I have been posting about an alternate theory for some time now on sci.physics and a few other related forums with very few responses nether for or against the theory.Its as if the readers do not know what to say and or its as if their questions were answered and they cant find any arguments against the theory.
The theory looks at what happens if the type of time dilation we get with gravity could contract matter in such a way that it also expands the surrounding space and ended up with a new way to explain how the big bang and the beginning of time could happen.
Later on after realizing that this alternate theory also gives at least one easily testable prediction I decided that it does indeed deserve to be classed as a theory and not just as a hypothesis.Subject to falsification after all.
Its to be reminded that the space expanding effect of gravity must be due to its time dilating effects and while similar is not the same as the Lorentz contractions on a moving rod.The theory does suggests that we are indeed inside of a black hole within another universe with a faster relative time.
I have a few gedankens on my web site to start readers getting an idea on how the theory works but remember the site is incomplete so for a more detailed review see my postings in sci.physics and sci.physics.relativity in Google or Usenet but look at least a few months back. Also on the blog site http://eclipseedge.org/msgboard/default.asp you can find a few of my postings under The Big Bang and Vacuum / Nothing , look for postings by ultranerd they are mine.My website is alttheories.com.
It leads to some far out speculations too for the reader interested in this as it also suggest actual white holes and ward drive possibilities. And if you want to really speculate then remember the Drake equation an advanced version of it relating to this theory suggest an increased possibility for an advanced civilization having even better chances of having existed.Leads to some very interesting arguments for the increased possibility of at least one synthetic god like civilization.
I do want any questions or advice.
Dale
post approved
John Merryman wrote on Aug. 17, 2008 @ 02:02 GMT
I think time makes more sense as a consequence of motion, rather the dimensional basis for it.
Consider; If two atoms collide, it creates an event in time. While the atoms proceed through this event and on to others, the event goes the other way. First it is in the future, then in the past. So which is the real direction? If time is a fundamental dimension, then physical reality proceeds...
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I think time makes more sense as a consequence of motion, rather the dimensional basis for it.
Consider; If two atoms collide, it creates an event in time. While the atoms proceed through this event and on to others, the event goes the other way. First it is in the future, then in the past. So which is the real direction? If time is a fundamental dimension, then physical reality proceeds along it, from past events to future ones. On the other hand, if time is a consequence of motion, then physical reality is simply energy in space and the events created go from being in the future to being in the past. Time as consequence of motion means it has more in common with temperature, then space, since they are both descriptions of and methods for measuring motion, rather then dimensional basis for it. This relationship between the matter/energy moving forward in time, as the events created move back in time applies to all scales, whether the earth rotating and creating days, or a cesium atom going through transitions, or strings and their vibrations. This isn't presentism, because as a measure of motion, it would be meaningless to describe time as a point. The only absolute temperature is the cessation of all motion and the same would apply to time.
If energy is always perfectly conserved, ie. neither lost or gained, there is no time function for the energy, because it simply is, so the only time function is a consequence of the energy, not basis for it. Just as temperature is a consequence of energy and when temperature changes, it is because energy is dissipated to, or consolidated from other areas. So with time, when one potential direction of events prevails, others are reduced or eliminated, so the energy consolidates to what prevails and dissipates from what doesn’t. Time as a consequence of energy is information going from future to past, ie. potential to actual.
The sun appears to travel east to west, but it’s the earth rotating west to east. To the extent reality just is, a clock to reflect that would have a stable hand to represent what is, with the face rotating the units of time past it. Currently the clock represents the sun moving east to west, so it has the hand moving left to right/east to west, across the top.
Think about a thermal medium, say a pot of hot water, with lots of water molecules moving about. If we were to construct a time keeping device out of this we would take the motion of one of these points of reference and measure it against the medium it is moving through. The point is the hand and the medium is the face of the clock. Obviously all the other points are hands of their own clocks, but are medium/face for all other clocks. The motion of any point/hand is balanced by the reaction of the medium/face of the clock. To the hand of the clock, the face goes counterclockwise. At any one moment, the positions of all these points constitute an event, so while any and all of them go from past events to future ones, the medium against which any point is being judged is the overall context, which once created, is displaced by the next, as all these individual points move around, so the events go from future potential to past circumstance. There are innumerable points of reference describing their own narrative and all this activity exists in an equilibrium, so every potential clock constitutes its own measure of time.
This model defines life as well. The physical brain moves forward in time, but the mind is a record of the events receding into the past. Most motion is at the speed of light, but we cannot process it in real time, so our minds create flashes of perception, like frames of film. Thus to us, time does seem like a series of instants. Of course these thoughts go from present to past, as the brain goes on to the next. Ultimately life amounts to a larger organism that is constantly moving on to the next generation and shedding the old like dead skin. It is the units of our individual lives, like markers on the face of a clock, that start in the future and end up in the past.
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post approved
Dr. Elliot McGucken wrote on Aug. 17, 2008 @ 03:05 GMT
Time as an Emergent Phenomenon: Traveling Back to the Heroic Age of Physics
In Memory of John Archibald Wheeler
by Dr. Elliot McGucken
ABSTRACT
In his 1912 Manuscript on Relativity, Einstein never stated that time is the fourth dimension, but rather he wrote x4 = ict. The fourth dimension is not time, but ict. Despite this, prominent physicists have oft equated time...
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Time as an Emergent Phenomenon: Traveling Back to the Heroic Age of Physics
In Memory of John Archibald Wheeler
by Dr. Elliot McGucken
ABSTRACT
In his 1912 Manuscript on Relativity, Einstein never stated that time is the fourth dimension, but rather he wrote x4 = ict. The fourth dimension is not time, but ict. Despite this, prominent physicists have oft equated time and the fourth dimension, leading to un-resolvable paradoxes and confusion regarding time’s physical nature, as physicists mistakenly projected properties of the three spatial dimensions onto a time dimension, resulting in curious concepts including frozen time and block universes in which the past and future are omni-present, thusly denying free will, while implying the possibility of time travel into the past, which visitors from the future have yet to verify. Beginning with the postulate that time is an emergent phenomenon resulting from a fourth dimension expanding relative to the three spatial dimensions at the rate of c, diverse phenomena from relativity, quantum mechanics, and statistical mechanics are accounted for. Time dilation, the equivalence of mass and energy, quantum entanglement, nonlocality, wave-particle duality, and entropy are shown to arise from a common, deeper physical reality expressed with dx4/dt=ic. This postulate and equation, from which Einstein’s relativity is derived, presents a fundamental model accounting for the emergence of time, the constant velocity of light, the fact that the maximum velocity is c, and the fact that c is independent of the velocity of the source, as photons are but matter surfing a fourth expanding dimension. In general relativity, Einstein showed that the dimensions themselves could bend, curve, and move. The present theory extends this principle, postulating that the fourth dimension is moving independently of the three spatial dimensions, distributing locality and fathering time. This physical model underlies and accounts for time in quantum mechanics, relativity, and statistical mechanics, as well as entropy, the universe’s expansion, and time’s arrows and asymmetries in all arenas.
“More intellectual curiosity, versatility and yen for physics than Elliot McGucken’s I have never seen in any senior or graduate student. . . Originality, powerful motivation, and a can-do spirit make me think that McGucken is a top bet for graduate school in physics. . . I say this on the basis of close contacts with him over the past year and a half. . . I gave him as an independent task to figure out the time factor in the standard Schwarzchild expression around a spherically- symmetric center of attraction. I gave him the proofs of my new general-audience, calculus-free book on general relativity, A Journey Into Gravity and Space Time. There the space part of the Schwarzchild geometric is worked out by purely geometric methods. “Can you, by poor-man’s reasoning, derive what I never have, the time part?” He could and did, and wrote it all up in a beautifully clear account. . . .his second junior paper . . .entitled Within a Context, was done with another advisor, and dealt with an entirely different part of physics, the Einstein-Rosen-Podolsky experiment and delayed choice experiments in general. . . this paper was so outstanding. . . I am absolutely delighted that this semester McGucken is doing a project with the cyclotron group on time reversal asymmetry. Electronics, machine-shop work and making equipment function are things in which he now revels. But he revels in Shakespeare, too. Acting the part of Prospero in the Tempest. . . ” --John Archibald Wheeler, Princeton University, Recommendation for Elliot McGucken for Admission to Graduate School of Physics
Dr. Elliot McGucken’s Biography: “Dr. E” received a B.A. in physics from Princeton University and a Ph.D. in physics from UNC Chapel Hill, where his research on an artificial retina, which is now helping the blind see, appeared in Business Week and Popular Science and was awarded a Merrill Lynch Innovations Grant. While at Princeton, McGucken worked on projects concerning quantum mechanics and general relativity with the late John A. Wheeler, and the projects combined to form an appendix treating time as an emergent phenomenon in his dissertation. McGucken is writing a book for the Artistic Entrepreneurship & Technology (artsentrepreneurship.com) curriculum he created.
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attachments:
Time_as_an_Emergent_Phenomenon.pdf
post approved
FQXi Administrator Anthony Aguirre wrote on Aug. 17, 2008 @ 19:59 GMT
Hi All,
Thanks for your enthusiasm -- I think you'll agree this is a fun topic.
Dale:
There's no need to 'qualify' -- if you enter a serious essay on the topic of the nature of time that satisfied the rules, it will be part of the competition.
Others:
There's no need to post essays here -- if you enter an essay using the submission form and it is approved it will be posted. However, we have decided to accrue the first 10-20 essays before posting them all at once, probably sometime in the next couple of weeks as they are already rolling in.
post approved
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F. Le Rouge wrote on Dec. 5, 2008 @ 11:15 GMT
- To John Merryman: 'If two atoms collide, it creates an event in Time'. Why not tell that you are computing this collision in your Mind or a Reference on a chronological scale? And if there are two collisions you can put them on the same binary scale or choose another order.
The collision is real but the Time Scale is just a convention like you say 'dog' to speak about a 'dog' between English or US people, but only the dog itself is real.
I am surprised that in the fq(x)i competition some competitors are speaking about 'the intuition of Time as a flow' as there was no other idea of Time.
To A. Aguirre: problem of Bergson is that he was fighting against Descartes Empiricism, what was in my opinion a good thing, but he stayed at in intermediate position which is untenable. For instance his idea against Time reference of mechanic Science is 'duration', but duration is nothing else than a piece of the Time reference as Aristotle said. In other words: a vector is not stronger than a dot (or blocks than vectors). There is just a factor inside.
post approved
Steve J wrote on Dec. 5, 2008 @ 18:09 GMT
What is Time?
To understand time, it is necessary to understand its components.
Time is energy, with the same energy density as solid mass. Time is a function of energy, and so identical to energy.
Energy in three-dimensional space is understood as mass, energy in the fourth Minkowski axis, as time, this means:
Each spatial dimension is held within the next, in this...
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What is Time?
To understand time, it is necessary to understand its components.
Time is energy, with the same energy density as solid mass. Time is a function of energy, and so identical to energy.
Energy in three-dimensional space is understood as mass, energy in the fourth Minkowski axis, as time, this means:
Each spatial dimension is held within the next, in this setting, the three ordinary dimensions of space are combined within a single dimension of time, to form a four-dimensional manifold, representing a space-time reality.
So multiplying an amount of time (t) (in seconds) by the speed of light squared (c˛) gives the decompressed spatial energy (E) of transduced (changing one energy pattern to a different energy pattern) time (t), in short E = tc˛.
Mass is just a special form of energy. Mass is energy, however only time mass exists, so the concept of mass as perceived as existing independently of time as a physical object is false.
Energy can move across the boundary of three-dimensional space, into the other spatial dimensions, referred to as an open system, in contrast to a closed system(not a single, closed energy system exists within our entire universe), which would isolate energy within three-dimensional space. So all energy circulations are facilitated through the fourth-dimensional manifold of time.
Negentropy, states that the natural system is self-ordering (i.e., freely receiving energy from the active environment), while entropy, is a measure of disorder in a system (i.e., freely giving energy to the active environment) both these states work in balance.
So accompanying entropy within three-dimensional space is the Negentropy of time energy, in the time envelope of three-dimensional space.
And accompanying Negentropy within three-dimensional space is the entropy of the time energy, in the time envelope of three-dimensional space.
The system functions through the broken symmetry of opposites, the poles of a magnet or a dipole, it’s the point of union that allows the energy of time(released from the virtual, into the physical) to pour out at the speed of light, expanding into infinity.
The entire universe functions on the conversion of energy, that being the transformation of the frequency of the energy, time energy is virtual, meaning we cannot observe it as it is held within the manifold of the fourth dimension.
The totality of photons(both virtual and observable) is the connection between all four dimensional planes, and so its interactions with mass creates that masses motion through time, this is why the photon is neither a wave nor a particle, it is within the two planes, both three dimensional space and the manifold of time.
Charge is the continuously active entity, which performs the processes of energy transduction between the time manifold and three-dimensional space. An example:
A Star is a vast dipole, which extracts transduced electromagnetic energy(virtual) from the time manifold and pours it out in all directions at the speed of light, without ceasing, this means a star pours out time-polarised electromagnetic waves(virtual), this applies an electric charge to the gas (ionising the hydrogen), generating a vast plasma ball emitting photons(observable light) and heat, the dipole continues in a circulation as the longitudinally polarised electromagnetic wave or photon discharges into three dimensional space.
Plasmas vary according to temperature and density, and have characteristics that scale over many orders of magnitude, this means to create a star the density of the ionisation of the hydrogen would be enormous, above 10łł charged particles per metered cubed. This range of ionisation density explains why for example Jupiter remains as a gas ball, as opposed to a plasma ball.
The visible Universe is 99.999% plasma. The Sun is about 100% plasma, as are all stars. Plasma makes up nearly 100% of the interplanetary, interstellar and intergalactic medium.
Electro luminescence of the plasma, by emitting photons(observable), both illuminates the universe and connects three-dimensional space to the time manifold, manifesting relativistic time.
Three dimensional space is a reality generated from the time manifold itself, the manner in the generation of this physical space means it will constantly expand this three dimensional universe at an ever accelerating rate. As every event, no matter how insignificant, is permanently stored within the electromagnetic field of the time manifold as quantum bits of information, these quibits of energy form braid like structures possessing length and width which twist together within the time manifold and expand the volume of the physical universe. This means the older the universe the greater its volume, being an ever greater amount of stored time events, as space expands it has more space to create events in time, this generates the acceleration.
The mass of the universe works in a similar way; this is quibits of energy (information) within three-dimensional space, which twist together to form particles, clockwise or anti-clockwise along their length to produce positive or negative charge.
So the time manifold is a natural quantum computer that uses inconceivable amounts of information to generate physical reality.
The emitted light energy in turn is absorbed by the nearby positive charge of mass, say, the planet earth for example, and retransduced into time-energy, and re-emitted back to the time manifold. This ongoing energy circulation is an example of a scalar potential, both being and doing, at every spatial point of itself, inducing vacuum polarisation (an example of polarisation would be opposite poles of a magnetic field).
There exist continual communication between particles which takes place in the time manifold, which holds this three dimensional universe, which holds all the particles of this physical reality.
Matter depend on knowledge, it needs a cosmological clock provided by the frequency of the electron waves, the waves also perform the role of communicating in addition to time, length and mass.
Every particle communicates its wave state with all other matter, so that energy exchange and the laws of physics are properties of the entire matter ensemble. The behaviour within matter arises from the fixed knowledge, from the source consciousness. Every element of this existence are interdependent, just as each cell of the human body is interdependent on every other cell, just as each element of an eco system is interdependent on every other element, a recurring pattern of nature.
There are two real and coexistent realities participating in the physical behaviour of matter. We see one reality as our familiar 3D environment, governed by the natural laws. The second reality is composed of energy so densely compressed it boggles the mind, this energy mass of unseen quantum waves which form the structure of the fundamental particles: electrons, protons, and neutrons, and also, all three dimensional space, and action, in truth, everything, emanates from the time manifold.
We cannot observe these waves of energy, although they fill the apparently empty space around us. We only know of their existence when two particles change their quantized wave states (energy patterns) in concert. For example, one particle in a star and the other in the retina of our eye. This exchange we call 'light'.
The energy of existence in all its many patterns and forms is of a single source, a conscious and infinite fountain of knowledge and imagination, without limit or constraint, as the understanding you have read expresses, only this conscious energy exists, nothing else, it guides and controls its energies, seemingly without effort.
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post approved
John Merryman wrote on Dec. 7, 2008 @ 11:48 GMT
Francois,
Time can be thought of as either linear, or cyclical, because it is a consequence of motion and motion can be linear, or cyclical.
post approved
amrit wrote on Dec. 8, 2008 @ 12:36 GMT
kev wrote on Dec. 12, 2008 @ 22:33 GMT
Time is a funny thing. On November 31st 2008 I made a small but significant discovery about the nature of proper time while studying the properties of motion in the spacetime below the event horizon of a black hole. How could I tell the world about my discovery? On December 1st 2008 I received a message from fellow physicsforums member Chris Clyde, that he had entered an essay competition about ‘the nature of time’ at FQXI. This was the first time I had heard of FQXI. What I wonderful coincidence! What great timing! Unfortunately I then discovered that the closing date for the competition was the same day and I did not have enough time to put a coherent essay together for the competition. What bad timing! It is ironic that someone like me that is always in the wrong place at the wrong time, should make a discovery about the nature of time in black holes that has eluded the experts for such a long time. Anyway, having lost my chance for fame and cash in the competition, I would still like the opinions and feedback of the members of FQXI and the interested public on my new interpretation of proper time and particle motion in the strongly curved spacetime of a black hole. The website I have produced includes equations, diagrams, interactive applets and a new metric that elaborate on the new concepts involved and is the result of many hours of my time. It will probably only take a few minutes of your time to review the material.
That is all I ask.
Some introductory articles are posted
here in my physicsforums blog and the website can be found
here.Any feedback here or in my blog would be most appreciated.
All the best for the holiday period and have a good time!
post approved
amrit wrote on Dec. 16, 2008 @ 08:14 GMT
"Time is what prevents everything from happening at once"
an alternative is:
Time is what prevents us to experience everything into present.
yours amrit
post approved
amrit wrote on Dec. 16, 2008 @ 08:16 GMT
regarding
"Time is what prevents us to experience everything into present", see file attached.
yours amrit
attachments:
1_Relation_Between_Time_Mind_and_Consciousness.pdf
post approved
Frank Martin DiMeglio wrote on May. 11, 2009 @ 16:12 GMT
Time is ultimately dependent upon the integrated extensiveness of space (and experience).
post approved
amrit wrote on May. 12, 2009 @ 09:33 GMT
Hi Frank
We know that 80% of red shift has origin in gravitational red shift. So expanding of the universe is under big ?
We have three different times:
1. Physical time – run of clocks
2. Math time – symbol t in formulas
3. Psychological time – past-present-future
See more on file attached
Yours amrit
attachments:
TIME_IS_DERIVED_FROM_MOTION__Sorli_2009.pdf
post approved
Steve Dufourny wrote on May. 12, 2009 @ 10:12 GMT
H Amrit ,
Personnally ,If I had voted for an essay about Time,it was for your essay .Your resume permits to distinguish some foundamentals about time .
The perception and the limits in this case improve the extrapolations .
It permits too to make a balance between reals and imaginaries ,it's so important .
Thanks for this resume
1. Physical time – run of clocks
2. Math time – symbol t in formulas
3. Psychological time – past-present-future
the complexity returns to simplicity ,
sincerely
Steve
post approved
amrit wrote on May. 13, 2009 @ 15:47 GMT
Hi Steve
You take a pendulum, put it in front of you and observe it for awhile. First few minutes you will experience pendulum moving in space and time, by observing loner, you will see that pendulum moves in space only. Close your eyes and you will see image of pendulum moving in your inner space. Physical pendulum and image of pendulum created by your brain both move in same physical space. Also psychological time as the mind structure of the brain exists in the same physical space. By longer observing of pendulum motion psychological time will vanish. You will enter timeless experience of pendulum motion. You become aware of psychological time that is part of the mind. You will enter in a state of a pure observer that is consciousness itself
yours amrit
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Steve Dufourny wrote on May. 14, 2009 @ 08:01 GMT
Dear Amrit ,
Yes indeed ,it's relevant .We have all the same history in fact .
We have all the memory of our evolution in our mind ,the Universe memory in our polarized particles .
In this case ,the psychological time is so spiritual ,we are in the evolution dynamic and its complexification .
All that permits to evolve in harmony in correlation with foundamental laws around us ,locally and globally .
When we admit our past ,we improve our present to improve our future if I can say .
The first cells ,these unicells ,protoz ,are in our memory too and before them too H ...H2O CH4 NH3....,13.7 billions years ???
Our elementary particles are fascinatings ,they live in time space .
As you say .the consciencousness like a memory of the evolution .
sincerely
Steve
post approved
Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on May. 14, 2009 @ 08:40 GMT
Amrit,
What you're describing sounds like a meditation technique. Meditation is certainly a good way to understand physics more deeply.
Steve,
You are right about one thing in particular, we all do want to see the complexity of time/energy become simple again.
post approved
Anonymous wrote on May. 14, 2009 @ 09:39 GMT
Jason yes, important task of theoretical physics today is to free observer from his imprisonment into psychological time. This is what meditation is. To step out of your mind.
attachments:
1_TIME_IS_DERIVED_FROM_MOTION_Sorli_2009.pdf
post approved
John Merryman wrote on May. 15, 2009 @ 10:02 GMT
Jason, Amrit,
It's not illogical. What you are describing as meditation is to look beyond the linear reductionism of logical, cause and effect thinking. Time is how we conceptualize this process. Temperature describes the larger field of activity, the network, out of which we draw the threads of our own historical series and then weave them together into a larger rope of group history.
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amrit wrote on May. 15, 2009 @ 10:52 GMT
Hi Jason,
in meditation, means in timeless experience is information line
"universe - perception - experience" unbroken.
All is cristal clear. See on file attached.
Yours amrit
attachments:
AWAKENING_OF_THE_OBSERVER_IN_PHYSICS__Sorli_2009.pdf
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Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on May. 15, 2009 @ 23:08 GMT
John, Amrit,
They have a new contest. I've started writing a paper. I've figured out some really interesting things. I agree with Amrit that a universal clock measuring time should be abandoned. I also think that n-dimensional space, as if everything existed in some box, should be abandoned as well. It may very well be the case that the connections between everything are superstrings. I'm trying to figure out if mass is determined by the number of superstrings connected between the particle and everything else in space. But if I'm right, then the universe does behave like a highly interconnected network. If that is true, than the existence of an infinite nerual network may be provable. An infinte neural network, one that can manifest consciousness, can function as both a diety and also as a way to explain the existence of a soul, independent of the physical body.
There is just so much to figure out...
post approved
John Merryman wrote on May. 17, 2009 @ 01:53 GMT
Jason,
It's an interesting concept, but I'm going to think it through awhile before taking the time to develop a paper. It would be harping on a pet idea to argue time travel isn't possible, based on an argument it is a consequence of motion, not a dimensional basis for it. Given the way the last contest was judged, it wouldn't get too many votes either. Maybe an argument for what is possible and not possible to propose as a scientifically acceptable idea. It's completely legitimate to say there are multitudes of other dimensions and universes which exist and our reality might have some interaction with, but don't even think of arguing there might be other consciousness in those other dimensions and interaction occurs within the depths of our own consciousness.
The irony is that time is considered a dimension based on our classic internal mental abstraction of serial process, yet not only does it trip up on the network of potentiality and proposes the multi-world view to deal with projecting a serial past onto a indeterminate future, rather than simply turn it around and see this wave of potential collapsing into the determinate past but other disciplines, such as neurology, biology, computer sciences are working on their own perspectives of this network reality as the basis for our serial perspective. The core discipline of physics has really gone off on a tangent.
Here's an idea; How about using multi-worlds, time travel, etc. to make an argument for how many angels, let's call them minor sub aware entities, can dance on the head of a pin. Call it a metal-ceramic microscope slide/culture dish. No, wait. That sounds normal. Hmm. The possibilities are endless.
Limitations define us and definitions limit us. Break our limits and we fall into the abyss. Oh yea, we die. So what is possible and what is impossible? Passing into the underworld before we die? Didn't the Greeks write a lot of epic poetry about that 2500 years ago?
post approved
John Merryman wrote on May. 17, 2009 @ 03:16 GMT
Jason, Amrit,
Of course we can always predict that a member of FQXi will win the contest, employing some combination of multiple universes, wormholes, time travel, faster than light transportation.. Did I forget something?
I have an idea for a mathematical impossibility; The inability to attain a capitalist utopia through an ever expanding money supply, created by the miracle of compound interest, due to the destruction of demand for that supply of capital, given of the detrimental consequences of said compound interest. Gosh! Supply and demand applies to capital? I wonder if the bankers know that? Politics does tend to side with those having money, over those wishing to borrow it. Don't tell the experts though. Might hurt their feelings. That's one reality that won't go away, no matter how long they manage to ignore it.
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Steve Dufourny wrote on May. 17, 2009 @ 09:48 GMT
Hi all ,
This essay contest is a very good idea .
a sure thing is that ,some human inventions are dedicated to disappear in Time Space evolution(borders,weapons,money,differences...) ,on the other side some universal foundations shall rest and shall evolve towards harmony .It's the that the differernce between harmony and chaos is interesting to study deeper in correlation with our evolution and that since the begining of the big polarization if I can say.
Many things are possible in the physical universe and its laws and constants .
So many things to discover ,to improve ,to harmonize ,to utilize ...our potential is incredible in this creativity more the complementarity.
the essay contest is very intersting and will permit an analyze in a whole point of vue.
sincerely
Steve
post approved
John Merryman wrote on May. 17, 2009 @ 23:44 GMT
Steve,
Recent neurological studies say that when brains harmonize, they seizure. A seizure is described as a feedback loop, like reverb on a loudspeaker and microphone. Our brains exist on the edge of chaos and order. In fact they are a process of turning chaos into order and without chaos to feed on, they die. They fall into the past.
post approved
amrit wrote on May. 18, 2009 @ 06:35 GMT
Hi all
Consciousness is far beyond the mind.
Knowing more about consciousness I watch my mind every day for two hors - zazen.
Seeing at the wall ant watch it. After half an hour mind start projecting on the wall. And then you become aware of consciousness itself. Observer becomes self-aware. You clearly distinguish between mind and consciousness. Past and future belongs to the mind, observer belongs to the consciousness.
yours amrit
post approved
Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on May. 18, 2009 @ 08:30 GMT
John,
Yes, I know we are all tempted by the $10K to tell them anything they want to hear: time travel, multiple universes, Slider gates,... I say go for it. As the crackpot of the bunch, as proclamed by the Physics Forum, I am working on the warp drive. It may take a few weeks before my consciousness is ready to grasp the concepts, but, I am asking for help from the Diety. From what I understand, your spaceship is QM entangled with distant stars. And if it's not, it can become entangled. The neural net view of the physics, where particles are merely hubs for billions of superstrings extending far and wide across the universe, the trick is to identify which strings lead to your destination, and then, somehow, change the string properties so that c beomces 1000c (1000x speed of light). I'll let you know when God crams the information into my tiny brain.
Steve,
Don't start singing Kumbiaya yet. The angels work with money. The Arch Angels still carry swords and occasionally destroy evil. Harmony can and does occur within the more advanced races. And a word of advice, don't discuss politics with the arch angels.
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Steve Dufourny wrote on May. 18, 2009 @ 08:30 GMT
Hi Amrit and John,
John,
Interesting studies in neurobiology .
I don't think that the chaos has the same capacity than the harmony .
The chaos is a very very short instant ,a phase ,but not foundamental ,that hasn't sense in this optic of balance between them .
The harmony is foundamental and the chaos is an human invention .In this point of vue time is important and its short phase where some parameters are check to imply chaos .On the other side the harmony is foundamental and all returns quickly to this universal harmony and its complexification .
Let's take our global human system and its parameters ,this system is young and will evolve towards harmony ,it's like that everywhere in all things .
Our Universe is in building and that in harmony .
An other thing ,the harmony is easier to put into practice than the chaos because it's our universal foundamental .
All chaotic systems shall return to this ultim balance and futrthermore can be accelerated ...it's there that the complementarity is essential in an universal point of vue .
Amrit ,
The consciencousness is a harmonic vision of our universe and its evolution.
it's intersting your analyze about past and futur ,consciousness and mind ,eternity and present ,the mind like a memory of the evolution ,the consciencousness to improve our futur and that in the love of the present eternity ....thanks for your studies about time .
sincerely
Steve
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Steve Dufourny wrote on May. 18, 2009 @ 08:49 GMT
Hi Jason,
same hour of posting .hihihi
You say
Don't start singing Kumbiaya yet. The angels work with money. The Arch Angels still carry swords and occasionally destroy evil. Harmony can and does occur within the more advanced races. And a word of advice, don't discuss politics with the arch angels.
hihihi very beautiful message ,thanks .the democracy of ideas on the borders of the politics and its human laws .
"It's difficult to turn off a big fire with one water drop ,nevertheless a whole of drops makes Ocean "
Regards
Steve
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Jason Wolfe/wulphstein@gmail.com wrote on May. 18, 2009 @ 15:55 GMT
Amrit,
"Consciousness is far beyond mind..." I can explain what you're looking for. Has anybody figured out how the brain "remembers"? Given that, I would start looking for a similar mechanism to explain how the soul exists. Imagine, very long closed loop bundles of superstrings. If your soul was like an MPEG song or a movie that played over and over, what would it be? Mine would be the album Nostradamus by Judas Priest.
John,
I don't know about neurobiolical seisures, but I think the economy and American politics is having a siezure. I think its because of years of bad news. Lets start a new News Network. We'll call it Happy News!!!
Steve,
If you want universal order and harmony, then here's my advice: give away your television and your radio. And any time someone mentions politics, put your fingers in you ear and go "la la lalalalalalala!!!" very loudly. It works for me!
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Frank Martin DiMeglio wrote on May. 25, 2009 @ 14:50 GMT
Time is ultimately dependent upon the integrated extensiveness of being and experience (including space). The integrated extensiveness of being and experience go hand in hand. This is demonstrated in the dream; as dreams occur during the one third of our lives that we spend sleeping. Importantly, there are three dimensions to space, compared with time. There are three parts to time and to our bodies as well: past, present, future -- thought, emotion, and feeling. The self represents, forms, and experiences a comprehensive approximation of experience in general.
With the addition of a fourth dimension of space to Einstein's theory of gravity, we get electromagnetism/light (Maxwell's theory) as well. This must be (and is) plainly evident in our experience. Since unconscious and conscious experience are necessarily interactive, they are combined.
Importantly, the ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sense is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sense.
Dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general (including gravity and electromagnetism). Moreover, dreams involve a fundamental integration and spreading of being and experience at the mid-range of feeling between thought and sense. The dream is the fundamental unification of gravity and electromagnetism.
This can also be briefly stated as follows:
Dreams improve upon the integrated extensiveness of experience AND thought. This is what is described by the addition of a fourth dimension of space that unites Einstein's theory of gravity and Maxwell's theory of electromagnetism/light. I have proven (in detail and with specifics) that the dream fundamentally unifies gravity and electromagnetism. With the fourth dimension of space being added, what is then described is thought that is more like sensory experience in general. The dream makes thought more like sensory experience in general (including gravity and electromagnetism). The ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sense is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sense. Note that dreams involve a fundamental integration and spreading of being and experience at the mid-range of feeling between thought and sense. The totality of experience/the system has to be considered.
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Eckard Blumschein wrote on May. 25, 2009 @ 22:52 GMT
In order to have S^2 invariant under Lorentz transform, physicists are ready to write ict. They accordingly attributed the property of being imaginary to time, and they felt even forced to deny time. Why not considering S^2 imaginary?
Because I am an EE, I consider complex calculus a flexible tool that provides ambiguous results to be eventually adapted to reality by means of common sense.
Does not the multiplication of time with ic in this case just express integration? Ordinary abstract time as well as measured timespan is a steadily growing quantity. Usually the zero of time relates to an arbitrarily chosen event. Alternatively, elapsed time naturally relates to the border between past and expected events. Only positive elapsed time and positive distance can be measured. While it might be reasonable to introduce negative or imaginary distance, negative elapsed time, spacetime, or the like, ultimately the results have to be made concrete by removing all physicist's abstraction. Predicted future events are merely anticipated past ones. I agree with many remarks by Doug.
Incidentally, present time, today, currently and the like are valuable as deliberately imprecise expressions for anything but exact physics.
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