Eckard Blumschein wrote on Aug. 21, 2011 @ 22:10 GMT
This article led me to Discover Magazine (Kalmbach Publishing). A Beyond Einstein Section sparked my interest: "Is the Search for Immutable Laws of Nature a Wild-Goose Chase?" Editors of more serious journals including Phys. Rev., nature, Science, and PNAS will perhaps prefer a more factual style. The reason for me to look into "Back from the Future" was to learn more than revealed in the article about the three steps in the mentioned laser experiments. I cannot even confirm an attempt to present possibly convincing data in a style I am used to accept.
Admittedly I am not familiar with Yakir Aharonov and the effect he is renowned for, "in which particles can be affected by electric and magnetic fields, even in regions where those fields should have no reach". Doesn't this assume that particles behave like points rather than spatially extended wave fields? Anyway, I would prefer abstaining from speculations and from questions that lack any basis for a convincing answer.
What about the mentioned three steps, I wonder if they do not overlap. I see the solution to "mysteries" not in boring wild guesses but in hard work that does not shy back from examination of really foundational issues including FOM.
Eckard Blumschein
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Wilhelmus de Wilde wrote on Aug. 22, 2011 @ 15:39 GMT
Incredible interesting subject Julie,
Our perceptions become awareness and then we become conscious of the universe around us and the causality that is fabricating our life-line. This causality seems logic when you look into the past, and the only thing we can do until now is evaluating the past, in doing so we can create expectations about possible futures, probabilities that can become realities. In the double slit experiment there is a final moment to decide to open or close the second slit (maybe a Planck-time duration), this is the very moment that or the particle form (one slit) or the wave form (two slits), if we assume that it takes place at the very last moment (Planck time) at a distance of the Planck length before the screen, then our wave/particle enters for that little moment a non-causal universe, where both the “realities are present, in our life line it does not matter if there is one slit or if there are two, it is the momentum action that is the the decisive following point in our life-line, that is constituted of one of the probabilities of the non causal universe inside the Planck-scale. The same counts in my opinion for the laser experiment, our intention is to amplify the results even if in the “past” (step 1) we WERE not aware of the multiplication, but is this third step is a causal logical step is what I wonder. In theory all the futures are possible and existing, so also the one in which step 3 leads to the amplification is already a reality, thiunk of this a little further and it counts for the whole history of our universe and so accounts for all the constants that we think that are so peculiar (see
my essay. Testing Times arrow can only be accomplished in our 4D causal deterministic universe, we can observe only one aspect of the infinite possibilities of time’s arrows .
Keep on thinking free
Wilhelmus
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Pentcho Valev wrote on Aug. 23, 2011 @ 05:02 GMT
Superimposing absurdities and wasting huge money in the process. Davies & Company should first solve the expanding/static universe dilemma. If they had discussed this dilemma in a biased way, that would still be normal. But if they add backward causation to the already sufficiently absurd accelerating expansion, and if they don't even mention the arguments for a static universe, and if FQXi pays for that - this could only mean that theoretical physics is dead, perhaps irreversibly.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 23, 2011 @ 23:36 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
Yakir Aharonov has been an internationally established Professor and member of FQXi. Even if his strange idea of backward causation did not find general recognition, there might be several FQXi members with similar putatively foundational ideas, and the effort to provide experimental support was published in PRL.
If you consider dealing with what you called absurdities a wast of money, I would like to remind you of bestselling literature that is appealing to laymen, not just Harry Potter but already science fiction by Jules Verne and to some extent some books by Paul Davies.
Incidentally, I do not expect much of interest to me from the announced panel discussion with Davies on the topic time. Nonetheless, I see it a challenge to provide alternative arguments. Admittedly, this is often not easy.
Read my essay 833 as to get aware of my attitude: Time will tell what was really foundational. I do not exclude that there are still fallacies in seemingly proven most basic tenets of mathematics (FOM) and its careless interpretation.
Regards,
Eckard
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 24, 2011 @ 04:10 GMT
Sorry Eckard but I find detrimental any activity within a DEDUCTIVE science if the fundamental axioms remain suspicious:
http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_detail
s.php?id=5538
Paul Davies: "Was Einstein wrong? Einstein's famous equation E=mc2 is the only scientific formula known to just about everyone. The "c" here stands for the speed of light. It is one of the most fundamental of the basic constants of physics. Or is it? In recent years a few maverick scientists have claimed that the speed of light might not be constant at all. Shock, horror! Does this mean the next Great Revolution in Science is just around the corner?"
Is the Great Revolution in Science still around the corner or the money now comes from another corner? That is the fundamental question.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 24, 2011 @ 14:45 GMT
Speaking of the next Great Revolution in science will be understood as attribution of Great Revolutions perhaps to G. Cantor and also to Einstein. Even B. Russell praised Cantor's set theory: "The solution of the difficulties which formerly surrounded the mathematical infinite is presumably the greatest achievement of which our age has to boast!"
When Wilhelmus wrote "incredible interesting subject" I see him in company with the many who are potential readers of most sensational stories.
I am not sure whether I understand you Pentcho correctly. Do you support the idea that c is not the maximal speed of light? FQXi and in particular Paul Davies seem to be open for dealing seriously with almost any deviation from mainstream physics on certain conditions. Shouldn't we highly appreciate this attitude?
The 2nd FQXi contest asked what is ultimately possible in physics. My credo was: There are very few indispensable preconditions for successful science. Perhaps the foremost important one is to assume objective reality and causal relations no matter whether or not we may completely reveal it. In other words, there is no room for mysticism and mere speculations in science.
Wasn't the Aharonov-effect called the seventh world wonder of quantum physics?
While I agree on that funding is fundamental to researchers who benefit from it, I do not see physics based on axioms. I am suggesting to look for logical flaws in deductive science. Isn't this a necessary and comparatively cheap activity?
Eckard
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Wilhelmus de Wilde replied on Aug. 24, 2011 @ 15:08 GMT
Hi Eckard,
The most sensational stories in science (I hope you meant that) are happening every day, see the "possible" and "impossible" results of the LHC (great great funding !!!), it is every day that we are on the treshold of new discoveries that may be able to develop further our consciousness.
You can always wonder why a project is funded, but perhaps this funding was step 1, andd then...
keep on thinking free
Wilhelmus
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John Sulman wrote on Aug. 24, 2011 @ 18:16 GMT
As Eeckard suggests, it need not cost anything more than time to look for logical flaws in deductive science. Likewise I agree that physics should not be based axioms, particularly if derived from mathematics without regard to causes.
Mathematical constants are ratios between idealised values, most often stated in irrational numbers, whereas physics deals in ratios between quantities with integral values which seldom coincide with idealised constants. The result is a battle between opposing forces creating instability as the standard condition, though fortunately there is a self-regulating tendency among all interacting forces to keep chaos within bounds to allow steady development.
Because of this equations in physics can have no universal validity in numeric terms. They can only express dimensional equivalence which tells a very different story from standard theory.
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 24, 2011 @ 18:44 GMT
John Sulman wrote: "As Eeckard suggests, it need not cost anything more than time to look for logical flaws in deductive science."
We can start right now (the procedure is called REDUCTIO AD ABSURDUM).
Premise: The speed of light is independent of the speed of the light source (Einstein's 1905 light postulate).
Conclusion 1: Arbitrarily long objects can be trapped inside arbitrarily short containers:
http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/
SR/barn_pole.html
"These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in the barn. Now someone takes the pole and tries to run (at nearly the speed of light) through the barn with the pole horizontal. Special Relativity (SR) says that a moving object is contracted in the direction of motion: this is called the Lorentz Contraction. So, if the pole is set in motion lengthwise, then it will contract in the reference frame of a stationary observer.....So, as the pole passes through the barn, there is an instant when it is completely within the barn. At that instant, you close both doors simultaneously, with your switch. Of course, you open them again pretty quickly, but at least momentarily you had the contracted pole shut up in your barn. The runner emerges from the far door unscathed.....If the doors are kept shut the rod will obviously smash into the barn door at one end. If the door withstands this the leading end of the rod will come to rest in the frame of reference of the stationary observer. There can be no such thing as a rigid rod in relativity so the trailing end will not stop immediately and the rod will be compressed beyond the amount it was Lorentz contracted. If it does not explode under the strain and it is sufficiently elastic it will come to rest and start to spring back to its natural shape but since it is too big for the barn the other end is now going to crash into the back door and the rod will be trapped IN A COMPRESSED STATE inside the barn."
Conclusion 2: A bug can be both dead and alive:
http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/Hbase/Relativ/bug
rivet.html
"The bug-rivet paradox is a variation on the twin paradox and is similar to the pole-barn paradox.....The end of the rivet hits the bottom of the hole before the head of the rivet hits the wall. So it looks like the bug is squashed.....All this is nonsense from the bug's point of view. The rivet head hits the wall when the rivet end is just 0.35 cm down in the hole! The rivet doesn't get close to the bug....The paradox is not resolved."
If the conclusions are absurd, then the premise is false.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 25, 2011 @ 20:41 GMT
Why did experiments fail to refute Einstein's 1905 false constant-speed-of-light postulate? Imre Lakatos has given the answer:
http://bertie.ccsu.edu/naturesci/PhilSci/Lakatos.html
"Lakatos distinguished between two parts of a scientific theory: its "hard core" which contains its basic assumptions (or axioms, when set out formally and explicitly), and its "protective belt", a surrounding defensive set of "ad hoc" (produced for the occasion) hypotheses. (...) In Lakatos' model, we have to explicitly take into account the "ad hoc hypotheses" which serve as the protective belt. The protective belt serves to deflect "refuting" propositions from the core assumptions..."
In the absence of any protective belt, the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment UNEQUIVOCALLY refutes the hard core of Einstein's special relativity and confirms the hard core of Newton's emission theory of light. Already the first element of the protective belt - the ad hoc length-contraction hypothesis advanced by Fitzgerald and Lorentz - reversed the situation: the Michelson-Morley experiment started to support the assumption that the speed of light is independent of the speed of the light source.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 04:28 GMT
In the presence of a gravitational field, the protective belt is called "gravitational time dilation". However the VARIABLE speed of light predicted by Newton's emission theory of light cannot be camouflaged so efficiently as in the field-free situation:
A light source on top of a tower of height h emits light with frequency f and speed c (relative to the source). The light reaches an...
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In the presence of a gravitational field, the protective belt is called "gravitational time dilation". However the VARIABLE speed of light predicted by Newton's emission theory of light cannot be camouflaged so efficiently as in the field-free situation:
A light source on top of a tower of height h emits light with frequency f and speed c (relative to the source). The light reaches an observer on the ground with frequency f' and speed c' (relative to the observer).
Equivalently, a light source at the front end of an accelerating rocket of length h and accelaration g emits light with frequency f and speed c (relative to the source). The light reaches an observer at the back end with frequency f' and speed c' (relative to the observer).
Consider equations (13.2) on p. 3 in David Morin's text:
http://student.fizika.org/~jsisko/Knjige/Klasicna%20Mehanika
/David%20Morin/CH13.PDF
f' = f(1 plus v/c) = f(1 plus gh/c^2) (13.2)
where v is the relative speed of the light source (at the moment of emission) and the observer (at the moment of reception) in the rocket scenario. By combining these equations with:
(frequency) = (speed of light)/(wavelength)
we obtain THE FUNDAMENTAL EQUATIONS OF NEWTON'S EMISSION THEORY OF LIGHT:
c' = c plus v = c(1 plus gh/c^2)
which CONTRADICT EINSTEIN'S 1905 FALSE CONSTANT-SPEED-OF-LIGHT POSTULATE. The fundamental equations of the emission theory can also be obtained from Paul Fendley's text:
http://rockpile.phys.virginia.edu/mod04/mod34.pdf
Paul Fendley: "An experiment to test this idea was done in the early '60s by Pound and Rebka in a tower 20 feet from where my office was as a graduate student. First consider light shined downward in a freely falling elevator of height h. Inside the elevator, we're a happy inertial frame. We say it takes time t=h/c to hit the bottom. We also say that there's no Doppler shift of the frequency of the light. But how does this look from the ground? Say the light beam was emitted just as the elevator was released into free fall (i.e. at zero velocity). By the time the light hits the bottom of the elevator, it is accelerated to some velocity v. Since light travels so fast, the elevator isn't traveling very fast when the light hits the bottom, so v is pretty small, and we can use non-relativistic formulas for this (but not the light!). We thus simply have v=gt=gh/c. Now let's see what this does to the frequency of the light. We know that even without special relativity, observers moving at different velocities measure different frequencies. (This is the reason the pitch of an ambulance changes as it passes you it doesn't change if you're on the ambulance). This is called the Doppler shift, and for small relative velocity v it is easy to show that the frequency shifts from f to f(1 plus v/c) (it goes up heading toward you, down away from you). There are relativistic corrections, but these are negligible here. Now back to our experiment. In the freely-falling elevator, we're inertial and measure the same frequency f at top and bottom. Now to the earth frame. When the light beam is emitted, the elevator is at rest, so earth and elevator agree the frequency is f. But when it hits the bottom, the elevator is moving at velocity v=gh/c with respect to the earth, so earth and elevator must measure different frequencies. In the elevator, we know that the frequency is still f, so on the ground the frequency
f' = f(1 plus v/c) = f(1 plus gh/c^2)
On the earth, we interpret this as meaning that not only does gravity bend light, but changes its frequency as well."
By combining the above equations with the formula:
(frequency) = (speed of light)/(wavelength)
one obtains THE FUNDAMENTAL EQUATIONS OF NEWTON'S EMISSION THEORY OF LIGHT:
c' = c plus v = c(1 plus gh/c^2)
which CONTRADICT EINSTEIN'S 1905 FALSE CONSTANT-SPEED-OF-LIGHT POSTULATE.
The Pound-Rebka experiment, just like the Michelson-Morley experiment in the absence of a protective belt, UNEQUIVOCALLY confirms THE FUNDAMENTAL EQUATIONS OF NEWTON'S EMISSION THEORY OF LIGHT and refutes EINSTEIN'S 1905 FALSE CONSTANT-SPEED-OF-LIGHT POSTULATE:
http://student.fizika.org/~jsisko/Knjige/Klasicna%20Mehanika
/David%20Morin/CH13.PDF
David Morin (p. 4): "This GR time-dilation effect was first measured at Harvard by Pound and Rebka in 1960. They sent gamma rays up a 20m tower and measured the redshift (that is, the decrease in frequency) at the top. This was a notable feat indeed, considering that they were able to measure a frequency shift of gh/c^2 (which is only a few parts in 10^15) to within 1% accuracy."
David Morin's text referred to above reappears as Chapter 14 in:
http://www.people.fas.harvard.edu/~djmorin/book.html
Introduction to Classical Mechanics With Problems and Solutions, David Morin, Cambridge University Press
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Wilhelmus de Wilde replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 15:56 GMT
Hi Pentcho, you might be interested in reading the essay of Peter Jackson : "2020 Vision. A model of Discretion in Space", he explains in aclear way the paradoxes of the speed of light.
keep on thinking free
Wilhelmus
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 16:18 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
I did not find your name among those who signed the petition of NPA at http://twinparadox.net/ while you wrote fqxi-against-einstein.html
Regards,
Eckard
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 18:23 GMT
Eckard Blumschein wrote: "Dear Pentcho, I did not find your name among those who signed the petition of NPA at http://twinparadox.net/ while you wrote fqxi-against-einstein.html"
They are etherists, most of them. But let me explain. I only disagree with them when they claim, explicitly or implicitly, that the speed of light only varies with the speed of the observer but is independent of the speed of the light source (the original prediction of Maxwell's electromagnetic theory). This is incompatible with the Michelson-Morley experiment or, if one wants it to become compatible, one has to procrusteanize Nature the way FitzGerald and Lorentz did (by making lengths contract along the direction of mouvement).
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 22:57 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
My dictionaries do not know the word "procrusteanize", just procrastinate in the sense of hesitate.
While I did not deal with the experiment of concern, my distrust in SR is mainly based on its neglect of the distinction between past and future. Also, I realized that Lorentz contraction, while never experimentally confirmed, is the same for motion towards and away because it depends on v^2.
Didn't you point me to Gift who commented on measurements which clearly indicate that something like a medium of electromagnetic waves might move with the earth as also does its gravity field?
Admittedly, I cannot imagine how to define a velocity without prior having defined a distance according to a chosen medium of reference in space.
As an engineer, I do not doubt that c is the maximal possible front-speed of electromagnetic waves in free space.
Regards,
Eckard
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 04:10 GMT
Eckard Blumschein wrote: "As an engineer, I do not doubt that c is the maximal possible front-speed of electromagnetic waves in free space."
This is what special relativity says. Both Maxwell's theory and Newton's emission theory of light say that the speed of light varies with the speed of the observer. That is, if the light has been reaching the observer with speed c but now the observer starts moving towards the light source with speed v, from now on the light will reach him with speed c according to special relativity and (c plus v) according to both Maxwell's theory and Newton's emission theory. The emission theory is correct, Maxwell's theory is wrong (it wrongly says that the speed of light is independent of the speed of the light source) but both HAVE PHYSICAL MEANING. Special relativity HAS NO PHYSICAL MEANING.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 06:39 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
You wrote:"Both Maxwell's theory and Newton's emission theory of light say that the speed of light varies with the speed of the observer." Really? Is speed something physical real or is it an observation? In my understanding, an observer may have any arbitrarily chosen relation to what propagates within a medium. Let's discuss a sound signal inside a vehicle. Does it matter at all in what direction and how fast the vehicle moves? With reference to the vehicle the sound propagates with about 330 m/s.
I am not sure. Was it Einstein who caused confusion by introducing an unspecified observer into consideration?
Regards,
Eckard
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 07:19 GMT
Perhaps your sound-signal-inside-a-vehicle example is not quite to the point. The fact that, according to Maxwell's electromagnetic theory, the speed of light varies with the speed of the observer has a simple and convincing PHYSICAL explanation and is accepted even by some Einsteinians (although most of them teach the...
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Perhaps your sound-signal-inside-a-vehicle example is not quite to the point. The fact that, according to Maxwell's electromagnetic theory, the speed of light varies with the speed of the observer has a simple and convincing PHYSICAL explanation and is accepted even by some Einsteinians (although most of them teach the opposite):
http://culturesciencesphysique.ens-lyon.fr/XML/db/
csphysique/metadata/LOM_CSP_relat.xml
Gabrielle Bonnet, École Normale Supérieure de Lyon: "Les équations de Maxwell font en particulier intervenir une constante, c, qui est la vitesse de la lumière dans le vide. Par un changement de référentiel classique, si c est la vitesse de la lumière dans le vide dans un premier référentiel, et si on se place désormais dans un nouveau référentiel en translation par rapport au premier à la vitesse constante v, la lumière devrait désormais aller à la vitesse c-v si elle se déplace dans la direction et le sens de v, et à la vitesse c+v si elle se déplace dans le sens contraire."
http://www.amazon.com/Brief-History-Time-Stephen-Hawking/dp/
0553380168
Stephen Hawking: "Maxwell's theory predicted that radio or light waves should travel at a certain fixed speed. But Newton's theory had got rid of the idea of absolute rest, so if light was supposed to travel at a fixed speed, one would have to say what that fixed speed was to be measured relative to. It was therefore suggested that there was a substance called the "ether" that was present everywhere, even in "empty" space. Light waves should travel through the ether as sound waves travel through air, and their speed should therefore be relative to the ether. Different observers, moving relative to the ether, would see light coming toward them at different speeds, but light's speed relative to the ether would remain fixed."
http://www.pitt.edu/~jdnorton/papers/Chasing.pdf
John Norton: "Finally, in an apparent eagerness to provide a seamless account, an author may end up misstating the physics. Kaku (2004, p. 45) relates how Einstein found that his aversion to frozen light was vindicated when he later learned Maxwell's theory:
Kaku: "When Einstein finally learned Maxwell's equations, he could answer the question that was continually on his mind. As he suspected, he found that there were no solutions of Maxwell's equations in which light was frozen in time. But then he discovered more. To his surprise, he found that in Maxwell's theory, light beams always traveled at the same velocity, no matter how fast you moved."
This is supposedly what Einstein learned as a student at the Zurich Polytechnic, where he completed his studies in 1900, well before the formulation of the special theory of relativity. Yet the results described are precisely what is not to be found in the ether based Maxwell theory Einstein would then have learned. That theory allows light to slow and be frozen in the frame of reference of a sufficiently rapidly moving observer."
_______________________________________________
[en
d of quotations]
Yes Einstein did cause confusion by creating a centaur having an "emission" body (the principle of relativity) and an "ether" head (the principle of constancy of the speed of light). In my view, the centaur then KILLED theoretical physics.
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 14:58 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
Let me replace light by sound, see by hear and ether by air in what Stephen Hawking wrote: "Different observers, moving relative to the air, would hear sound coming toward them at different speeds, but sound's speed relative to the air would remain fixed." Well this is called Doppler effect and not disproved by the Michelson-Morley experiment if one accepts the possibility of a earth bound ether, cf. Gift.
Any wave propagates relative to the medium in which it propagates. It does not directly depend on the motion of emitter or receiver. The wave equation puts a theoretical limit to that velocity. Waves of the same kind e.g. sound waves in air do not add their velocities but superimpose intensities.
For instance one must not add the velocity of a sound wave to the velocity of a rocket:
v_rocket + c_air does not hold for the audibility of a rocket that travels with v_rocket faster than c_air. One cannot hear the rocket before it hits.
The velocity of a solid body depends on and refers to motions of its emitter and its receiver. The velocity of a bulled must be added to the speed of the gun it was fired from.
What about "sufficiently rapidly moving observer", lets render it pointless by assuming two such frames of reference A and B moving with 2c/3 each in opposite direction.
My arguments: Observers are not at all necessarily involved in the motion of an object. Arbiters need to be in symmetrical position.
I agree with equating c with ether, and I question the seemingly appealing generalization of Galilei's principle of relativity to electromagnetism.
Maybe someone else can confirm or refute my suspicion that it was Einstein who introduced the confusing third party observer.
Regards,
Eckard
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 16:01 GMT
Eckard Blumschein wrote: "Any wave propagates relative to the medium in which it propagates. It does not directly depend on the motion of emitter or receiver. (...) My arguments: Observers are not at all necessarily involved in the motion of an object. (...) Maybe someone else can confirm or refute my suspicion that it was Einstein who introduced the confusing third party observer."
The question: "What is the speed of light relative to the observer or receiver?" is essential in Einstein's theory and in any other theory. Einstein's 1905 light postulate:
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/einstein/specrel/ww
w/ "...light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c which is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body."
can be given the following EQUIVALENT formulation:
"...light is always propagated in empty space with a definite velocity c (RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER) which is independent of the state of motion of the emitting body."
So I cannot imagine a reasonable discussion if "observers are not at all necessarily involved".
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 18:15 GMT
Pentcho Valev wrote "velocity c" is EQUIVALENT to "velocity c (RELATIVE TO THE OBSERVER)".
This is definitely a generalization without justification in case of waves that belong to a carrier, e.g. sound waves.
Einstein called and rejected using the carrier as "absolut ruhender Raum". This guess is unjustified not just in case of sound in air. The carrier may move relative to something else.
We do not need an observer at all. If a wave propagates from A to B then this must not depend on what observer C was chosen unless C is identical with A or B. We can safely calculate the duration of propagation if we know the velocity and the distance of performed motion, i.e. the difference between position A relative to the carrier at the beginning of propagation and B also relative to the carrier at the end of considered propagation.
By the way, Einstein did not attribute a vector of velocity to a particular position.
I agree with Penchto Valev on that SR is flawed because it is based on a wrong postulate, however I consider not the second but the first one untenable.
Eckard Blumschein
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Pentcho Valev replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 19:26 GMT
Eckard Blumschein wrote: "I agree with Pentcho Valev on that SR is flawed because it is based on a wrong postulate, however I consider not the second but the first one untenable."
You will have difficulty in (rigorously) explaining the null result of the Michelson-Morley experiment if you assume that the principle of relativity is false.
Best regards, Pentcho
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 27, 2011 @ 22:25 GMT
Dear Pentcho,
www.scientificexploration.org/journal/jse_20_2_gift.
pdf
www.physicsessays.com/securepdf.asp?pwd=free&id=270
http:/
/arxiv.org/ftp/arxiv/papers/0708/0708.2687.pdf
Thank you for pointing me to Stefan J. G. Gift in the Westindies.
Already Tom Van Flandern argued against the presently dominating belief in SR.
I humbly admit that it was the lacking correct separation between past and future in Poincaré's (de)synchronization that I did not swallow. I distrust Aharonov for the same reason.
Best regards,
Eckard
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John Sulman wrote on Aug. 25, 2011 @ 11:20 GMT
My apologies to Eckard Blumschein for the excess of 'e's in spelling his name. My fingers go at different speeds when using the shift key!
In picking up my approval of the economy in seeking logical flaws, Pentcho Valev demonstrates the flaw in using mathematical theory to resolve a physical problem rather than examining physical causes.
Only waves travel at speeds relative to the background around that of radiation, particles of matter can only vibrate at a comparable speed which is regulated by the ratio of locally available energy to mass at any point constituting a photon. Sufficient energy to accelerate a solid object to such speed could induce a change of phase shrinking it to small fraction of its former size, rather more than the Lorentz Contraction!
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Wilhelmus de Wilde wrote on Aug. 25, 2011 @ 15:13 GMT
I read an article from Yonatan Sivan and John Pendry " Time Reversal in Dynamically Tuned Zeo-Gap Periodic Systems (Physical Review letters 106, 193902 (2011), it is about to efficiently time-reverse ultrashort electromagnetic pulses, time reversal eliminates any distortions or scattering that occored at earlier times, regardless of the medium the pulse has propagated through. Are we talking about the same object ? is it not quite sensational Eckard?
keep on thinking free
Wilhelmus
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Eckard Blumschein replied on Aug. 25, 2011 @ 18:05 GMT
A time-reversed pulse evolves as if time runs backwards: as if! They used a switchable crystal mirror. This is an old hut to those who are familiar with waves.
Eckard
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Wilhelmus de Wilde replied on Aug. 26, 2011 @ 14:29 GMT
Lawrence B. Crowell wrote on Aug. 28, 2011 @ 02:33 GMT
I have given one of the author papers a quick reading, which I hope to follow up with a more thorough reading. The basic concept is that quantum mechanics is blind to space and time. A quantum wave function has a representation in space or spacetime, but the wave function is a distribution over a Hilbert space. It is not something intrinsic to space or spacetime. As a result the configuration of a quantum system in the future can be nonlocally associated with some configuration in the past.
Cheers LC
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Pentcho Valev wrote on Aug. 29, 2011 @ 06:24 GMT
http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~gibson/Notes/Section6_3/Sec6_3.ht
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Professor George N. Gibson, University of Connecticut: "However, if either the source or the observer is moving, things change. This is called the Doppler effect. (...) To understand the moving observer, imagine you are in a motorboat on the ocean. If you are not moving, the boat will bob up and down with a certain frequency...
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http://www.phys.uconn.edu/~gibson/Notes/Section6_3/Sec6_3.ht
m
Professor George N. Gibson, University of Connecticut: "However, if either the source or the observer is moving, things change. This is called the Doppler effect. (...) To understand the moving observer, imagine you are in a motorboat on the ocean. If you are not moving, the boat will bob up and down with a certain frequency determined by the ocean waves coming in. However, imagine that you are moving into the waves fairly quickly. You will find that you bob up and down more rapidly, because you hit the crests of the waves sooner than if you were not moving. So, the frequency of the waves appears to be higher to you than if you were not moving. Notice, THE WAVES THEMSELVES HAVE NOT CHANGED, only your experience of them. Nevertheless, you would say that the frequency has increased. Now imagine that you are returning to shore, and so you are traveling in the same direction as the waves. In this case, the waves may still overtake you, but AT A MUCH SLOWER RATE - you will bob up and down more slowly. In fact, if you travel with exactly the same speed as the waves, you will not bob up and down at all. The same thing is true for sound waves, or ANY OTHER WAVES. If you are moving into a wave, its frequency will appear to you to be higher, while if you are traveling in the same direction as the waves, their frequency will appear to be lower. The formula for the frequency that the observer will detect depends on the speed of the observer - the larger the speed the greater the effect. If we call the speed of the observer, Vo, the frequency the observer detects will be: f'=f(1 plus Vo/Vwave). Here, f is the original frequency and Vwave is the speed of the wave."
Clearly the speed of the waves relative to the observer VARIES with the speed of the observer in accordance with the equation:
V' = Vwave plus Vo
which is in fact the fundamental equation of Newton's emission theory of light:
c' = c plus v
The moving observer scenario refutes Einstein's special relativity but does not discriminate between Newton's emission theory of light and some ether-based theories:
http://www.eng.uwi.tt/depts/elec/staff/sgift/specia
l_relativity.pdf
The Invalidation of a Sacred Principle of Modern Physics, Stephan J.G. Gift
"For a stationary observer O, the stationary light source S emits light at speed c, wavelength Lo, and frequency Fo given by Fo=c/Lo. If the observer moves toward S at speed v, then again based on classical analysis, the speed of light relative to the moving observer is (c plus v) and not c as required by Einstein's law of light propagation. Hence the observer intercepts wave-fronts of light at a frequency fA, which is higher than Fo, as is observed, and is given by fA = (c plus v)/Lo > Fo. (...) In light of this elementary result invalidating STR, it is difficult to understand why this invalid theory has been (and continues to be) accepted for the past 100 years."
Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com
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RAY OLIVER - RAYOLIVERESQ wrote on Sep. 28, 2011 @ 01:35 GMT
Professor Aharonov's theory that the future affects the past is an interesting adaptation of quantum physics. After many years of thought and notations, which was first generated for me by reading Wheeler-Planck theories on Black Holes in space in 1969, I reached my own cosmological interpretation of the genesis of known and unknown sub atomic structures of our known and unknown universe. It is what I call, "TIME, SPACE & RELIGIOSITY" (c)oliver. I agree that time and space are finite. Rather than a model of an expanding universe, it is am "imploded" universe within a vacuum, a Big Bang, which created everything for a few seconds and ended all existence as we now know, within a few seconds or a millisecond. Everything we know to exist, was created and ENDED within that millisecond. However, the creation of time and space places us in a slow component of time, in between the beginning and end. Our known universe is a slow moving slide show of what happened from beginning to end, after that millisecond phenomenon. What is observed as an "expanding universe," appears to be an expansion from within the matrix of time and space. However, what appears to be an expansion is the "constriction" of everything after the implosion within a vacuum. Time & space are finite. Time, space & matter were created on implosion, with the matrix of what was created being stretched in a constriction (expansion from our observation) and had ended within a few seconds after the Big Bang. Time and space are the slowest components of what was created and quickly ended. We are the slow moving components now in between the beginning and the end. We are like a time lapse video of inside a light bulb which blows out when you turned on the light switch. The phenomenon took a second. What happened inside the bulb, within that moment of blast of light is taking millenia to play out for us, because of "time and space" lapses within it. I'd appreciate comments on my theory. google: rayoliveresq
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Author Frank Martin DiMeglio wrote on Dec. 10, 2011 @ 23:53 GMT
Balanced attraction and repulsion that involves balanced and equivalent inertia and gravity is the requirement of fundamentally unifying gravity and electromagnetism. Both gravity and inertia must [necessarily] be at half strength/force for such a union to occur. This is required of quantum gravity as well. This can only be done by making space equally (and both) visible and invisible. Opposites must be combined, included, and balanced. Gravity enjoins and balances invisible and visible space. Space must be contracted/flattened and stretched/expanded in an equivalent and balanced fashion.
Mathematics cannot fundamentally and ultimately combine, include, and balance opposites. That is obvious. The ultimate understanding of physics combines, balances, and includes opposites. Do you agree or disagree? Dreams fundamentally combine and include opposites. Dreams generally and fundamentally unify physics.
Gravity and inertia are both fundamental to distance in/of space. The visible AND YET INVISIBLE (equivalency and balancing) of inertial/gravitational space in dreams even allows for vision, as this is evident in the invisible and visible space of/inside the body/eye while waking. (Vision begins invisibly inside the body/eye.) HALF GRAVITY AND HALF INERTIA ARE EQUALLY (AND BOTH) VISIBLE AND INVISIBLE IN DREAMS in keeping with the middle distance in/of space and middle force/energy. Indeed, the space [as a whole/generally] IS semi-visible/semi-invisible in dreams. The space in dreams is equally (and it is both) visible and invisible.
This is the fundamental and general unification of physics in/as dream experience.
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Author Frank Martin DiMeglio wrote on Dec. 26, 2011 @ 02:19 GMT
Gravitational and inertial equivalency and balancing (both at half strength energy/force) is required of any fundamental unification in physics. It is so fascination that, in dreams, this is inseparable from combining, including, and balancing larger and smaller space as the same space -- FUNDAMENTAL INSTANTANETY! Indeed, the space is entirely inertial and gravitational -- in keeping with balanced and equivalent attraction and repulsion -- in an equivalent and balanced fashion. Accordingly, the space is both, and it is equally, visible and visible -- and it may or may not be touched in keeping with such fundamental middle strength force/energy (and inertial and gravitational equivalency and balancing). The space is both potential and actual in keeping with instantaneity and the fact that the space is equally (and it is both) visible and invisible. (Remember that vision begins invisibly inside the BODY/EYE.) VICTORY!
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Michael Haddid wrote on Nov. 12, 2012 @ 13:07 GMT
Very recently there have been unexpected advances in understanding dark energy. In fact if the claim of the Egyptian Scientist M. S. El Naschie is correct, then there is no more a mystery regarding dark energy. El Naschie’s solution is disarmingly simple and was presented at two conferences which were almost entirely devoted to his work. The first was held in Bibliotheca Alexandrina early October...
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Very recently there have been unexpected advances in understanding dark energy. In fact if the claim of the Egyptian Scientist M. S. El Naschie is correct, then there is no more a mystery regarding dark energy. El Naschie’s solution is disarmingly simple and was presented at two conferences which were almost entirely devoted to his work. The first was held in Bibliotheca Alexandrina early October 2012 and the second was in Shanghai a week or so ago. On both occasions El Naschie presented a revision of Einstein’s theory leading to an equation very similar to that of Einstein’s namely Energy equals mass x the square of the speed of the light. However unlike Einstein’s equation, the result is divided by 22. His explanation of 22 is as follows: As in the old string theory of strong interaction, space time of relativity should have been considered 26 dimensional. Taking 4 only is what Einstein did and that is how he got his famous result. Nevertheless Einstein ignored 22 dimensions. This is a scaling factor following Nottale’s theory as argued by El Naschie. Even in simpler terms, he reasons that Einstein knew only one elementary messenger particle namely the photon. He knew nothing about the other 11 messenger particles of the standard model which were not known in 1905. Adding 11 super partners it turned out that Einstein did not know about an additional 22 elementary particles. These are the particles needed to explain the missing dark energy. In this way El Naschie was able to show that 95.5% of the energy of the Universe is missing. Alternatively this energy was never there to start with because space time is a fractal and although it looks puffed up it boils down to very little similar to cotton candy. In addition the compactified 22 dimensions are the cause for the negative pressure which increases the acceleration of the Universe’s expansion. He claims to have tested his theory using 25 different methods including Witten’s M-Theory and reached the same result. Even more importantly this result agrees completely with observation. In other words mathematics and physics have been substantiated by measurement which led last year to the award of the Nobel Prize to the 3 team who obtained this incredible measurement and data. Click on this link to get more info re the above (under news) http://www.msel-naschie.com/ and also http://mohamed-elnaschie.blogspot.com/.
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